jackson535 appeal

We have a system where permanent bans are permanent. Permanent bans are only lifted if they are issued in error. Please, can you explain briefly why your friend felt bad and why essentially griefing another plot helped?

Also, we don’t freak out about sand in an empty plot, but we consider what you did griefing, and griefing is not allowed on our server, obviously. Griefing is prevented to an extent, and any exploit of possible ways to grief is considered griefing. The empty plot is still the property of the player that owned the plot. However, if what you say is true, then your offense potentially didn’t hurt the owner of the plot much. So, if it can be verified by a staff member, that it wasn’t very excessive, I would approve to have the ban lifted. For reference, can you provide an approximate time when this happened?

To comment on what you said below: Punishments vary depending on what you did. Some rules being broken demand a permanent ban, most other infractions are punished in a way that expect you to better your behavior in the future. We do not “discard” players that do something wrong, unless we decide that they deserve a permanent ban.

I didn’t think it would be relevant, but sure. Unfortunately, my friend had a stage 3 brain tumor at the time. he had a 12% chance of survival. the night that this happened was the same day that he told me. I swore to him that I would do everything in my power to make the best out of his days that he had left. One of his desires, unfortunately, was doing silly stuff like flinging sand onto the other guys plot. I helped him make a better machine because he asked me, and I did not have it in my heart to tell him to stop. I now realize that this is unfair to you guys to take out our problems on you, and the fact that he had a serious issue to deal with does not change what happened to the server.

In summary, the damage was about 30-50 pieces of sand and gravel in the one corner of the plot, which was done using slimeblocks.

forgot about the time aspect. this was at least a year ago. if not 2 years. I don’t remember much more than that.

I can say that Permanent bans are permanent, because we haven’t had any guys that have been permanent banned come back as a better person imo. That is also a reason they are permanent. Griefing is a permanent ban right away and since you got something on the plot you probably got some on the road too.

So I mean that you shouldn’t get unbanned.

If any staff or retired staff member can confirm your story, that it was just sand being slinged into an empty plot, I am okay with an unban.

I agreed with Dico up to the point you explained your story. It may seem insensitive to say this, but even if it IS true (I’m not sure I think it is), it’s not really relevant. -1 to an unban.

Let‘s just go top to bottom, that‘s the easiest for me. Also I‘ll assume your story is true for this analysis.

What I did wrong: I helped my friend feel better […]

No. That‘s not what you did wrong. What you did wrong is griefing. Not helping your friend.

Please discuss this material between your fellow staff members. This information could help your server.

This is the ban appeal subforum. Feature requests do not belong here. If you want to make a feature request then you should do that in the correct forum. If you want to start a conversation you should do that in the community vote, ask staff or other section, depending on where seems the most appropriate.

I have been a member of hundreds of creative servers over the past 5 years

Five years = 1800 days. Hundreds of servers = at least 300. That‘s an average of six days you spend before you switch to a new server. You don‘t seem very dedicated, more like a „hop on, do something (trouble perhaps?), then leave again forever.

Every server I have been on had a working and effective policy of unbanning players if they appealed and appear to have changed.

A) I doubt that there were literally no exceptions. One doesn‘t simply play on a few hundred servers, only stay for six days and know everything about their appeal system AND doesn‘t find a single flaw. Also it‘s quite weird that you‘re familiar with the appealing system of so many servers, especially with such a short playtime on each. That‘d only make sense if you had to use the system on each server. Which doesn‘t speak for you. B) We also have a working appealing system and policy. When you are banned and you think that the ban was issued unjust, you can apppeal it and the case will be reevaluated. You appealed, and we are currently gathering information and are reevaluating your case.

This is a proven fact that even players who were once banned can become very valuable players once unbanned.

==CITATION FUCKING NEEDED==

I feel as if the staff have banned me in an unfair fashion, in the sense that I am 1. Permanantly banned, […]

It would‘ve been unfair if we changed the rules a week after you did something that initially was legal and was then changed to a banable offense. Which is not the case. You knew in advance that you would be punished with a permanent ban, yet you decided not to stop or tell your friend to stop: “I helped him make a better machine because he asked me, and I did not have it in my heart to tell him to stop.”

[…] and 2. not given the opportunity to correct my behavior or be unbanned.

You always had the chance to appeal your ban. Which you have done here and right now. You had two years of opportunity, assuming your timings are correct, and decided not to. There‘s a difference between not being given an opportunity and deciding not to take action.

I believe I should get a second chance personally because I have completely changed my personality since then, and I can be a valuable member of a redstoning team.

This has no imoact on your ban being justified or not. This will not have an impact on the decision we take.

I completely agree to follow the rules 100% from now on.

You did when you joined the server. It was an implied agreement. You failed that agreement last time and might as well just do it again.

If you do unban me, the argument that many other players can suddenly be unbanned exists. this is a valid fear, but the best part of being a server operator is having the control to filter out between the people who have changed and have not changed. You could still deny as many appeals as you want or see fit. therefore, you do not lose any control.

Has nothing to do with the ban or with this appeal. People can always appeal no matter how we decide in this case.

Part 2 to follow

I was hesitant to post a reply, but I must say, Dico, your fellow staff members are acting extremely biased and more on an emotional standpoint than a logical standpoint in this case. You may have guessed, But my idea of the banning system does not involve the elimination of players and never letting any of them back. No other server I have ever been on does this. I can safely say, that I can easily point out the flaw in every statement pepe just said, as it is extremely biased towards emotion and not fact. Here’s an example. pepich demonstrates extreme bias in the following areas: that every ban case can be generalized by a strict unchanging set of rules, that people never change from being banned, and that people cannot request things regarding their ban in the ban appeal section, because they qualify as suggestions. Just to prove some of this bias, lets analyze this statement. “I believe I should get a second chance personally because I have completely changed my personality since then, and I can be a valuable member of a redstoning team.

         This has no imoact on your ban being justified or not. This will not have an impact on the decision we take."

this statement is biased in two ways. 1. He is clearly stating that he will not take the fact that people change into consideration. this is like completely ignoring an important variable in an equation. This also shows that he adheres to a strict set of changing rules, which apply perfectly to every player. this assumption is derived from his words corresponding to the current rules.

Dico, I believe that Admins and Moderators are not just there to impose rules on other people. I believe they are similar to federal judges in the united states, interpreting the constitution and applying an appropriate sentence. and from what i’ve seen so far, You seem to believe that too. However, Your admins are only acting like people who impose strict and uniform rules on others.

Sincerely, I hope you can see this through your own eyes. Your staff mate’s opinions do matter, yes. But you are the one with the vision of what you want the server to be. And you have control.

Ok here‘s a little fact for you that might destroy your world view. In a few ways.

In your response, you talk to dico about me, refering to me as „he, pepe“. I‘m a girl. Fix it.

In your response you‘re talking to dico that makes it look like dico was in charge. I am the highest instance on this server. Nemes, Futsy and me together form the staff lead team. If you have a problem with a staff member, talk to one of us. Not to dico. Dico‘s an admin. Dico is not a lead staff. I am. Be aware of that the next time you‘re trying to complain. I am the highest instance. I am the last instance. I am the ultimatum. I am this server. Did you get that? Good. Now, you claimed that you can “I can easily point out the flaw in every statement pepe just said, as it is extremely biased towards emotion and not fact.“

Do that. Now. Every sigle one. Especially the one where I demand citation, I really would like to see the study on that. If you manage to disprove EVERY SINGLE POINT I made, I‘ll happily accept that you are an amazingly intelligent person and would make a great addition to this server, offering you a two week trial time, followed by a clean record if you make it through that.

Now go and prove me wrong. Prove my bias. Prove my 100% static enforcment of the rules. And how that is a problem. If you do, I‘ll happily stick to my word and do everything to allow you the trial I offered.

Preach it, Pep.

@jackson535 I would just like to point out that it’s quite hypocritical of you to claim that Pep is biased towards emotion when you tried to gain our sympathy with a cancer sob story…

So I‘ll just quickly put together a list of all the points I made so that you can deal with it easily:

• The mistake you made was not to help your friend, but to grief
• Suggestions go into the dedicated forums for ideas on how to improve the server
• An average time of six days per server shows that you are not showing dedication
• You either didn‘t know the appeal system of all servers that well, there was at least one with a flaw or you only got to know them all so good because you are a troublemaker
• Stating facts requires citation
• Enforcing rules that you are aware of is fair and just
• You had two years to appeal, but didn‘t do so up until now
• The current system doesn‘t account for people „changing“. It judges based on the ban being just or not
• You failed to follow the rules before
• Stuff that has nothing to do with the ban or appeal will have no impact on it

Those are the statements I made in a TL;DR. Disprove them. For the „citation“ one it‘s enough if you provide the citation I asked for initially, I am well aware of the problem that you literally cannot disprove that statement. Which is why providing the citation I asked for is enough. Also finding a source pointing out that one single person bettered themselfes isn‘t enough. We need to think this on a scale of input vs output, so if 1/100000 people better themselfes then this means the effort of dealing with the 99999 has to equal or be outweighed by the benefit the 1 brings. I think a quota of 50/50 would be fair, provide evidence for that and I guess we can reconsider our appeal system a bit :)

If you can prove that a point on this list doesn‘t match my initial statement, you may replace it with the true meaning of my statement and disprove that instead.

@jackson535 we’re not here to discuss changes to the appeal system. What you did here is quite disrespectful. You’re not going to be able to provide the study that pepe asked for, and his analysis has changed my opinion. Your response only made your case more difficult (quite literally). I will now close this thread. Please do not reply unless you can add the citation, the study of which must have been completed before the date you posted this appeal.

1. you clearly bypassed the meaning of my sentence. you even left out the part where I said “helping him fling sand into an empty plot” this screams bias by leaving out that. helping my friend was an introductory phrase to what i did wrong. the fact that you think its not is pretty amazing. 2.a suggestion within a ban appeal is not the same as a server suggestion. I was suggesting that the staff should all talk about my ban appeal to eachother, to get the general consensus as opposed to a single person’s opinion. this is very clearly a ban appeal related suggestion, and does not make any logical sense whatsoever to exist in a server suggestion. 3.many. many. many servers ban redstone. its unbelievable. i would say 1/20 active servers have redstone fully enabled. I did not bother to waste time on them. Occasionally, I would go to the forums and attempt to convince them that redstone is not a threat to their server. hence my forum experience. I have only had a handful (less than 10) main servers that I played on for years. Note that I can play on multiple servers actively over the course of a year.
2. I knew the forums system very well because I have been an owner of a server before, and have co-owned a larger server for a while. I have actually MANAGED ban appeals. Not only that, but I know from even the servers that have redstone disabled, just taking a quick look at their ban appeals section shows that many people get unbanned. Obviously, not the sedistic griefers. It is easy to spot them out. In real life, everyone makes mistakes. the vast majority of people learn from big mistakes. for example, markiplier, a youtuber, was recently robbed for having his wife’s purse visible in a car. he clearly stated at the end of that video, that he will leave the important stuff at his house.
3. There are multiple instances of this, especially in close knit community servers. take polygoncraft, for example. A former staff member named audb3, was temporarily banned for doing something bad, but it was never told to us exactly what it was. however, he is now a valuable part of this community again. he lelps players with their buildings and gives them advice, and actively participates appropriately in social conversations. Another example that I can speak of is myself. I used to be pretty unstable. about 2 years ago, I was temporarily banned from polygoncraft for a week, for arguing with staff, after I felt that they did something completely unjustified. after I was unbanned, I was so glad to be back, and realized that an argument isnt worth getting banned over. the owner of the server, Flexo013, can vouch for this, as well as Katemania, Harki42, and Audb3. I have not been banned since, and I feel that I am an integral part of their server. Yet another player on that server, Creeper_tamer_36 (I think that’s his IGN) was banned for retaliating against an argument in the form of griefing a house. he appealed, and the owner unbanned him. He has truly changed, and he is now another integral part of the server. I Think this is plenty of examples in itself. It is clearly a legitimate outcome of a player being banned, changing into a better player.
4. it is atypical for a server operator to ban someone without warning them or giving them a chance to stop. giving one a chance to stop can ultimately save a player and end a conflict. therefore, enforcing rules is fair, but not even listening to what the offender has to say, or giving them a chance to stop should be a crime in itself. it hurts everyone.
5. I have previously appealed on this server forums. It was immediately closed, saying that this server does not just unban permanantly banned players. I had no interest in rejoining this server until now, because I figured that many of the previous players had left, leaving a better, more refined community behind.
6. you are correct. and that system is flawed. people do change, and as I said, not accounting for that is like ignoring a variable in an equation. just read basically everything else I have typed.
7. yes, but people who break the rules once often do not break it again if there is a consequence. people, and human beings in general, are unique in that they learn a lot from their mistakes. and as I’ve said, Ive changed, and if you ignore that then you are doing yourself a disservice.
8. the “irrelevant” information that I provided was not relevant to my specific ban appeal, but was simply showing a greater picture than just myself. although it was more of a server suggestion, it was still relevant to my ban and my ban appeal.

0. You ignored my point. My point was that your mistake was not to help your friend. You put that phrase into your appeal to make us feel bad. You were trying to get a pardon based on feelings, not on facts. If you were trying to appeal based on facts, you would’ve never brought it up. ==You failed to disprove my point==

1. You know the forums system of two servers. Before you claimed “a few hundred servers”. ==You failed to prove that you know the system of “a few hundred servers” well, that not one of them was flawed, and that you know them for a different reason than having to use said systems.==

2. ==CITATION FUCKING NEEDED== Do you know what a citation is? You provide examples of your own life. That. Is. Not. A. Citation. Let me give you a citation that proves my point: Here’s one from 1985, it’s an article, they link sources. Read them if you feel like it., Another one, this one’s from 2005.. ==You failed to provide citation, I provided citation proving the exact opposite. I want at least a 50/50 good rate. Not a 80% bad rate.==

3. It is atypical for people to break a rule that they are aware of that it will lead to a permanent ban. You were aware of it. You decided to break the rules despite the consequences.

4. We have listened to what you had to say extensively right here, and we have listened to what you said in your previous appeal as well. You didn’t say much, except things that ya know… They weren’t very nice. Let me cite you a bit :)

why thank you for your wonderful posts that i am now going to make a youtube video of to show how kind you all are and willing to accept that youve done something wrong like a grown person thank you for making a fool of yourselves. you no longer need to consider my post, since i do not want to join a server of the lesser kind. I just wanted to say hi to my friend.

Immediately followed by:

this whole conversation is now stored on a text file on my computer. welcome to the internet

Let me tell you, that whole conversation is stored on our servers. You’ve been an absolute dick in that appeal. Your statements made there contradict the statements made here. Why did you never mention your friend in the first place? The things you said there cannot be unsaid. We got them stored forever. Welcome to the internet :) ==You failed to disprove my point, and only made a fool of yourself. You no longer need to consider my previous offer, since I do not want people of a lesser kind to join this server.==

0. I am correct. You think the system is flawed, but that is not the topic of this appeal. ==You failed to disprove my point.==

1. ==CITATION FUCKING NEEDED YOU FUCKING DICKHEAD WHEN YOU MAKE SUCH A CLAIM FUCKING PROVE IT==. The sources I provided suggest that about 70-80% of people who make mistakes that lead to them ending up in fucking JAIL will do them again within a considerably short timespan. Are you gonna claim that making a mistake that puts you in jail is not applicable because it is… Umm… Idk how anyone would reason this. Sorry but no.

2. Lemme cite you. Think about what you say, before you click post:

the “irrelevant” information that I provided was not relevant to my specific ban appeal, but […] it was still relevant to my ban and my ban appeal

==This speaks for itself. I’m both wrong and right. Schrödinger’s ban.==

Let’s count this out:

Points made: 10 Points addressed: 8 Points disproven: 0

This puts you at 0% in terms of my offer. Thank you for wasting my time in such an extensive amount. I appreciate your efforts of trying to fail as hard as you can, you did a really good job. Well done. Sure you pissed me off, but in the end I did have quite a good laugh putting together this response, especially when you mentioned your previous appeal. That shit is pure gold. Pure fucking gold, I’m telling you. Thanks again xD

Quick side note, just so that you are aware of it: If you put more bullshit on the forums, I sadly see the need to ban you from using them. Either you have something valid to say and stop trying to make us feel bad to unban you, and actually address the points I made and not go “invalid because biased” after I provide PROOF of my point, and you agreeing to the point I made, then claiming that it doesn’t matter because you don’t like our system. Our server. Our system. We decide. You said so, so we’ll do just that. Either you get judged by the system that we set up for it, or you don’t get judged at all and stay banned. You are in no position to demand that we unban you because your standards differ from our standards. That is not how life works.

Also, mind fixing your FUCKING GRAMMAR? That shit is fucking annoying you know there’s a caps key on your keyboard that let’s you capitalize letters. Please. Use it. It’ll help you in your future, trust me. If you try to write an application like that everyone’s just gonna laugh at you. Do yourself a favor and fix that.

Also a quick thing, you ban evaded right before before posting here. So breaking a another rule to say you should be unbaned is not a thing that will get you unbaned.