Redstoner is dying

Before I look at the rest of the post I want to mention this:

After reading what panda wrote here, I got upset because I had realized that night seriously is demoted, and we might lose some of our wonderful staff to innactivity.

I actually decided to demote myself, as I haven’t had enough time to work with the server and the job itself had burnt me out, so I’m technically taking a “vacation” for now. Should I come back later I don’t know.

Now on to the points.

1. I kinda see both sides of this point, so I agree with you partly there.

2. This is a definite issue for sure, it seems to be becoming more common lately too.

3. Yes I agree here too. New players aren’t going to want to put up with staff if they just get ignored or yelled at.

4. I’ve also brought this point up with others before as well. There is literally no time zone planning done when it comes to picking people to add to staff (since we are a very diverse server), so as a result we get fluctuating staff counts (which often led to me being the only mod on. This alone was one of the major reasons I decided to resign, as being the only mod on with 40 other people isn’t fun or easy).

5. I believe the issue here is that we have a very open set of rules when it comes to swearing, and there are no real definitions for what’s kickable, banable, mutable, etc. So everything is left up to individual interpretation.

6. I can agree with this as well, especially on your point where nobody wanted griefing to be allowed, in fact most of the mods at the time were also against having it permitted (including me) because of the drama that would erupt. I of course am not afraid to admit that I was involved in a mass grief of that world and the spawn too, but my goal was mainly to prove a point. (Which it likely did as now Trusted survival exists).

Also I have notified the staff about the issues, seems like only dico has noticed so far. So yeah that’s an issue as well.

TL;DR: This post is BitByte Approved.

EDIT: Also it seems I’m still a site moderator lol. If it’s ok with @redstone_sheep though I wouldn’t mind continuing site moderation and helping code the java utilities. (Since those jobs I feel I can still do adequately). Although if this is an issue, feel free to demote me on site too.

Another thing I want to point out that I forgot to address.

We’re not evolving, we’re old, and the same, for ages.

That I can agree with also. New idea’s such as minigames and stuff have been pushed to the side time and time again most likely because we are a creative community and it’s not “worth the work” in some cases (it doesn’t help that any minigames we had, had to be 100% original too last time we tried getting some games). Meanwhile things like the gallery are dead because despite only a few staff members caring about it, and a couple players mentioning it, literally no one else cares about the gallery.

It honestly would be better if the gallery was dropped and something more interesting is put in place of it, because I hardly see a place where you go to look at things being something that is going to bring players in, or really even get used often.

Just fyi, there is moderator requirements on the website, and it was never said that if you think you fit them you should mails us / post it on the forums or whatever. The reason we dont have an Apply for mod feature is beacuse everyone wants special powers.

Asfar as communication goes, its done as well as possible, if the server is down for 1 hour that just means noone is online to fix it. We have an automatic script that alarms us if its down you have to remember we have other things to doo aswell, some have school some have jobs

I know this is really long, just bear with me.

I think some these points have validity in them, but some aren’t quite right

@Mothership_Q had been playing on lonely redstoner nights as a member for a while. Suddenly, the staff had seen the motherator potential in him and quickly promoted him to where he is today. A new staff member, who didn’t climb the ranks.

Well almost the same thing happened to me, i was a visitor like everyone else, then quickly became member. a month or so later i was builder. This was during a time when basically every moderator was inactive to the point that nobody knew there were moderators. So the staff at the time decided they needed new mods, and i was apparently at the top of the list, and first to get moderator as a result. Night, Eni, and alexpaquette also became mods at around the same time. Alex proved to be a terrible mod, but thats a story for another time. I was promoted to mod because they needed mods and i fit the expectations at the time. Around the time Mother became moderator we needed a few extra mods and he was selected. same as me but you don’t complain about it.

Instead of staff making observations from the server on who is fit and who is unfit for staff, why not APPLICATIONS!

I can guarantee at least 99% people would just apply to be a mod for the special powers such as /mute and /kick to name a few. This would result in people with special powers and not taking on the expectations of a moderator who promotes people for their plots, deals with lag, help people when they need it, etc.

Lack of communication. I’ve noticed that a lot of staff have different views on rules, fair in their own way. Well, the problem: I see staff that think links are fine, and other who still kick for advertising. This is a big problem

I agree. some times we disagree on ways that certain rules are enforced. I tend to be more strict about the rules with trusted members, because they have been around a while and are expected to know the rules. and I tend to be more care free with visitors especially new ones because they are brand new and might not know the rules. Some people are strict to all people, some are reverse of me. Whatever the case we interpret the rules the way we see them, and it also depends on the situation. If lots of people were kicked for spam recently i will be much more strict about spam for a while, but if there hasn’t been spam for days then suddenly theres one lonely spam, i’ll tell them to stop and move on. all the rules have situational moments where its enforced differently if this is going on where if it wasn’t. Its a tough thing to do, moderate, and sometime we mess up, sometimes we give to harsh a punishment, and we try to correct it, apologize and don’t let it happen again. I like having the more open and free rules that don’t have so strict guidelines. If i say that more than 3 lines of the same thing is spam, people will always say 3 lines then stop, and they are basically abusing the rules and i hate that.

Swearing was allowed, with many people against it, and this now allows immature players to swear like a sailor

swore to the point where he said he’s leave

Well if someone is swearing excessively and there are no staff members online, ==REPORT IT==. In fact if any rule breaking is going on while a mod isn’t online ==REPORT IT==. Admins can check the logs, and mods can then punish him appropriately. If there are no staff members online its everyone else’s job to report rule breaking so staff can deal with it when they are online. Also i hardly ever see people swear, maybe because I’m a mod and people won’t swear in front of me. Whatever the case if theres only a little swearing, one word every now and then, then so what! if theres lots of swearing then alert a mod, or report it if none are online. I’m starting to think the swearing rule is just so pan can swear.

I think it would be better if we did ban swearing, it makes the server seem more mature, it won’t scare off younger kids, and generally gives the server as a whole a better reputation.

People who have been on just 2 days have gotten builder.

I have never heard of anyone getting builder that fast in almost 2 years of moderating. The record is i think 5 days.

the griefing in survival problem

I was against this originally but pan persuaded me that it was a good idea. I now realize he probably did that because greifing is a pain to deal with at times, and if we just allowed it it would save the staff a ton of time and problems down the road, when all it did was kill the survival world.

Thank you to all who spent the time to read the whole thing :D

Just going to point this out @Doom_Blah

Alex proved to be a terrible mod

I have to disagree with this point. If he was a terrible mod he wouldn’t have been admin for a while. He just made some stupid mistakes near the end of his time here.

Very good points.

As you’re saying, reporting swearing is a good method, but it’s becoming a bigger problem.

The thing with swearing is that some staff and a lot of trusted members swear. If out most mature players swear, reporting it could be useless because some admins think it’s fine, and could cause a debate between other staff.

And yes, someone has indeed gotten builder in 2 days before, but was demoted once other staff realized it. This was a while ago and I don’t remember much more.

Back to the swearing, as I re-read what you posted I thought I’d bring up that old plugin. Back in the alexpaquette days, there was a swearing plugin that seemed to be pretty effective.

And about what you wrote about applications, that was pretty negative. I agree with you a bit. But you brought good points which I will address fixes to.

1. I had already mentioned a trial. It should be pretty effective in monitoring how players act as staff and acts as a buffer.
2. Applications could have downvotes/upvotes so staff can immiditely focus on ones the community agree with more.

Back in the alexpaquette days, there was a swearing plugin that seemed to be pretty effective.

We never had a plugin that blocked swearing, what we had was an antispam plugin that prevented messages from having more than 50% caps and prevented sending the same message twice.

@chloetherat

Rule 5) Limited swearing is tolerated as long as its not aimed at offending someone. (someone being offended by you swearing doesn’t count)

So you are anti-swearing but have no problem using stolen minecraft accounts? You are so against people swearing and being offensive to others that you resort to calling them deuchbags (*douchebags).

Also, there is ONE incident where a staff member incorrectly kicks someone for posting a link and all of a sudden this is a BIG problem?

Now I do agree that for some time zones there is a lack of staff and this is something that needs to be addressed. I also wouldn’t be opposed to more staff in general to help share the load.

As for the rest of your post it seems you just have a couple of personal gripes that have pissed you off and because of this you claim redstoner is dying. In my experience it is busier now than it has been for ages. I can’t take your list of fixes seriously either, other than number 8 you don’t seem to be proposing anything concrete, just spouting a lot of buzzwords without actually saying anything.

a staff member incorrectly kicks someone for posting a link

i didn’t even kick, i warned.

EDIT: @Valsim72 did not help me when I asked on multiple occasions when he responded he was just ‘busy’ with… redstone.

Well, I do not remember that. If you asked me something and then I did not give you any answer, that is because I was probably AFK. Actually, school gets me really busy, so it could have happened that I was AFKing while simply doing my homework. However, If I truly did something wrong to you, please tell me where exactly my mistakes were, so I can get better at doing my helper job. Thanks for your patience.

@Ionwolfhelm theres a few things about your post I would like to point out.

Also, there is ONE incident where a staff member incorrectly kicks someone for posting a link and all of a sudden this is a BIG problem?

Mods have incorrectly kicked and warned people for posting links in chat many times before (I have done my fair share of them too I believe). It’s not just a single incident, it only seems that way because only the one time has the person punished raged over it.

As for the rest of your post it seems you just have a couple of personal gripes that have ****** you off and because of this you claim redstoner is dying.

As chloe mentioned, I did indeed acknowledge (and so did doom) the fact that these are indeed issues. So I don’t see how it’s a personal gripe.

Now on to @chloetherat.

I am deleting this post due to how offended I am by your message. In they next day I hope someone can actually understand this post for what it is. Something I did to try and help, that I didn’t have to do.

Don’t delete the post just because one person is upset over what you have to say, that’s like performing at a concert but deciding to cancel it because one person doesn’t like the music.

Also @chloetherat can you elaborate on your fixes a bit? Other than #7 I like the ideas for the others.

@Everyone Keep in mind that there has been enough drama on the forums lately! I want civil discussion after this point, no more hostility.

@BitByte

As for the rest of your post it seems you just have a couple of personal gripes that have ****** you off and because of this you claim redstoner is dying. As chloe mentioned, I did indeed acknowledge (and so did doom) the fact that these are indeed issues. So I don’t see how it’s a personal gripe.

Just because you, Doom, or even if the rest of the server all agree with every point doesn’t mean my opinion on the subject shouldn’t be voiced or is necessarily wrong.

To clarify my feelings let me address each point raised and give my feelings on them.

@chloetherat

1. Being good at redstone or building in general is a requirement to get some ranks (I feel more than anything this is because it shows a dedication toward the server) but I haven’t sensed that has been a reason for promoting people to staff since I have been involved. I also don’t see how doing redstone is any more of a distraction to staff than doing a non-redstone build, answering the phone, feeding the cat, helping other people, picking my nose etc etc. While we should strive to improve things, in my experience the vast majority of requests for help are dealt with in a reasonable time frame. It seems that this has come from one incident with Valsim where you assumed because they were busy it must be with redstone and that this is therefore a big problem.

2. Yes there was some confusion over the links rule which ideally would have been avoided but rules can not be made perfect and will always be open to an individuals interpretation. You suggest that communication is the issue here but in my experience on a lot of occasions staff will discuss an ongoing incident in staff chat as it is occurring as to what the best course of action may be. Also on the subject of communication, any member who feels they were unfairly punished can and should post something on the forums to help staff iron out any issues with the rules. The fact that there was only one complaint about this rule shows to me that most people didn’t think it was a BIG problem.

3. Swearing is not against the rules, neither is disagreeing with someone. In most civilised countries freedom of speech and freedom of opinion are held as ideals to strive for. While Pan can be a bit abrasive at times it isn’t right for you to accuse him of offending some unnamed new guy at some unspecified time. If you have an issue with anyone being offensive or breaking a rule you should make a post in the appropriate forum so staff can properly investigate the issue and take any action they see fit. It would also give the accused a chance to defend themselves and chat logs etc could be checked for the truth. You chose not to do that, the person you suggest he offended didn’t do that. In my experience the staff are usually polite and more often than not are the ones warning others in chat to keep within the rules. So again to me this seems like you just venting a personal gripe that isn’t backed up by any evidence or my experience of the server.

4. Lack of schedule/time-zone issues with staff. 100% agree, when its the middle of the night/early morning in Europe there seems to be a lack of staff, I have mentioned this to Admin myself and is something we should look to resolve asap.

5. Again, swearing isn’t against the rules. Being offensive is. If you see this happen and staff miss it or ignore it PLEASE post something on the forums, ideally with a screenshot so it can be properly assessed. It is highly likely that staff will miss things or that on occasion we will be too strict or too lenient with people, but without anyone letting staff know what we did wrong and when, how are we supposed to learn from our mistakes and improve for the future? Judging what is and isn’t offensive will always be tricky and different for each individual, it isn’t possible to list every phrase that could offend and the appropriate punishment so this rule can only be enforced by applying personal judgement. In my experience, most of the time when people start to get offensive they are either warned or in more serious cases kicked/banned by staff. I suspect this again is just a personal bugbear of yours, as you yourself were offensive in your post, before I (a staff member) pointed that out to you and you edited it.

6. Lack of public input. Sections of the forums are dedicated to ideas for changes people would like to see for the server. Some recent changes have taken place which were prompted by input from the public. Other changes are in the works and I believe ALL of us, staff and non-staff alike would welcome any positive changes to the server we all play on. As I said earlier, I couldn’t see many substantial ideas in your post for how to improve the server, other than highlighting the lack of staff issue for some time zones.

Just because you, Doom, or even if the rest of the server all agree with every point doesn’t mean my opinion on the subject shouldn’t be voiced or is necessarily wrong.

I never said your point was wrong and/or shouldn’t be voiced. I’m simply pointing out more than just @chloetherat has acknowledged these issue.

I’m glad you decided to break down the post a bit more this time and point out some more things with it. I do agree chloe is a bit too vague with his fixes though, so @chloetherat please elaborate on them for us.

You know it’s funny reading this after two years of it being posted, not even being 2 years old myself.

I remember a small period somewhat recently, that only lasted a week or two, when staff was having debates consonantly and having poll after poll.

I like the no new feature thing, as we still are mostly the same.

I find the swearing part funny as, if you suggested a chat filter now-a-days, the reaction is very different.

Redstoner is dying

I think the fact its still around 2+ years later proves once and for all that its not. It was fun to read through this again but honestly what did you have to add about this? Great piece of nostalgia but this thread has been solved, or become irrelevant or something. so Locked.